Discussion:
Children as Passengers
(too old to reply)
Kyle Boatright
2005-08-08 23:17:08 UTC
Permalink
What is the collective experience on flying young children? I realize each
child is different, but is there an age at which *most* children become
decent passengers in light aircraft?

How do you address protecting a young child's ears?

Stories? Dos? Don'ts?
RST Engineering
2005-08-08 23:36:39 UTC
Permalink
"There are two modes of travel: First Class and with children." (R.
Benchley [sp?])

Jim
Post by Kyle Boatright
What is the collective experience on flying young children?
Gary Drescher
2005-08-08 23:43:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kyle Boatright
What is the collective experience on flying young children? I realize
each child is different, but is there an age at which *most* children
become decent passengers in light aircraft?
How do you address protecting a young child's ears?
I've taken many children flying, three years old and up. I use regular
headsets, placing foam inserts under the bridge if necessary to make them
fit better. (I'm not sure what to do for infants.)

All the 3-5 year old passengers I've had were very excited about the
prospect of flying, and promptly fell asleep after takeoff. :) Older kids
stay interested longer.

--Gary
A Lieberman
2005-08-09 00:07:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kyle Boatright
What is the collective experience on flying young children? I realize each
child is different, but is there an age at which *most* children become
decent passengers in light aircraft?
How do you address protecting a young child's ears?
Stories? Dos? Don'ts?
Hi Kyle,

Like you say, each child is different, but my niece and nephew took to
flying like a duck to water. Their first flight was at one year old and
they are 3 1/2 now.

The first couple of times, all we did was go to the airport to let them get
comfortable with the sounds, and being around the plane. Since I have a
Sundowner, the slope of the wing was very intimidating, but now it takes
everything to keep them out of the plane after I arrive.

Do's.......

Do preflight with them. Let them move the controls. Let them spill the
fuel out of the sampler. Kids love cause and effect. I use this as an
opportunity to learn how to count, parts of planes and so on.

Do emphasis ramp safety. My niece and nephew know the prop and exhaust
pipe is dangerous and they are not to step on the ramp without somebody
holding their hand. No running allowed period. They learned real quick to
watch their heads around low wing planes like mine as flaps do make a mark
on a forehead when they are walked into. Props are not forehead friendly
either as my nephew discovered when he put the chocks down and got up
without looking. He looks now *smile*.

Do bring something for them to entertain themselves during the flight.

Do bring something to eat and drink

Do interact with them, act like it's no different then a ride in a car.

Do put them in the back seat, as child seats work better. My big mistake
was putting my nephew in the front and now he wants to be a pilot like
Uncle Allen.

Do bring a camera. The smile that comes with the freedom of flight is
priceless.

Do bring somebody with you to do the camera work so you can focus on making
the flight most comfortable as your partner works on making the kid most
comfortable.

Don't.......

Don't force them to fly.

Don't put them in the plane any sooner then you have too. They get restless
in the anticipation of the flight.

Don't emphasis wearing headsets. If they see you wearing one, they will
want to copy cat you. Act normal, and they will follow. I got lucky here
as they did not mind the headset on their head. I ended up getting child
headsets after their second flight.

Don't emphasis the bumps. Act normal and they won't know any difference

Don't climb too fast. Ears are a little more sensitive and the angle of
attack may make them uncomfortable.

Don't make a long flight without stops. My first cross country flight was
1 hour 15 minutes to my house. That was just about their bladder limit.
Any longer, and I would have been changing britches.

Most importantly....

DO HAVE FUN! Kids are a blast in their reactions.

Hope this helps.

Allen
Andrew Gideon
2005-08-09 16:40:42 UTC
Permalink
Don't emphasis wearing headsets.  If they see you wearing one, they will
want to copy cat you.  Act normal, and they will follow.  I got lucky here
as they did not mind the headset on their head.  I ended up getting child
headsets after their second flight.
My son's headset has become a toy. He - sometimes - wears it while playing
"airplane". And he knows that its purpose is to damp noise.

When I ask him about flying (again) in a real airplane, he's interested but
sometimes complains that it's too loud. I remind him about the headset, at
which point he gets more interested.

Alas, I've not had a chance to get him in the air since I started this.
I've barely had a chance to get *me* into the air.

- Andrew
Robert M. Gary
2005-08-09 00:11:23 UTC
Permalink
My kids and I travel the U.S., Mexico and Canada in our Mooney. Once
they are able to wear a headset and manage the potty they are great
travelers. They can go before then but its more difficult. I would say
4 years old things get easier.
W P Dixon
2005-08-09 00:07:14 UTC
Permalink
Well they are ok as long as you give their little legs time to gather enough
speed to take off! ;)

Sorry I just had to!!!;)

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech
Post by Kyle Boatright
What is the collective experience on flying young children?
r***@compuserve.com
2005-08-09 02:05:18 UTC
Permalink
Do a google search on the subject, there is a tremendous amount of
information on the subject on the Internet.

Go to AVweb (www.avweb.com), click on "columns", then on "The Pilot's
Lounge" and scroll down to one of the very first ones which addresses
the subject in detail.

Best of luck with it,
Rick
Matt Barrow
2005-08-09 03:34:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by r***@compuserve.com
Do a google search on the subject, there is a tremendous amount of
information on the subject on the Internet.
Go to AVweb (www.avweb.com), click on "columns", then on "The Pilot's
Lounge" and scroll down to one of the very first ones which addresses
the subject in detail.
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182653-1.html
Ross Richardson
2005-08-09 16:16:03 UTC
Permalink
I have flown many a child. Take a look at my newsletter and scroll down.
I made these foam pads with velcro that can be added to standard
headsets. They work great. I have use them here and on the Young Eagle
flights for the smaller heads.

http://www.eaa323.org/newsletter/323aug04.pdf

Like someone else has said, kids usually fall asleep in 5 to 10 minutes.


Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI
Post by Kyle Boatright
What is the collective experience on flying young children? I realize each
child is different, but is there an age at which *most* children become
decent passengers in light aircraft?
How do you address protecting a young child's ears?
Stories? Dos? Don'ts?
unknown
2005-08-09 17:55:11 UTC
Permalink
I don't by any means claim to be an expert as I just took my kids up for the
first time this past weekend (see previous post). I waited a while before
taking them up mostly due to the fact that I wasn't getting in as much
flying as I used to with the expanding family. I wanted to get some more
hours under my belt. My son--who is three--kept his headset on the entire
time. I used a pair of Lightspeed QFR Solos for him and the Sigtronics child
headsets for my one-year old daughter. She promptly took off the Sigs after
40 seconds. We had a few sets of the soft earplugs as back-up and she kept
them on for 1.5 hours after which she took one of them out. The fact that
she fell asleep on climb-out helped with the ear plug placement. People have
recommended using the baby hats that cover the ears to prevent them from
taking out the plugs but it was an 87 degree day so we opted not to use it.

What helped after the first hour was the portable DVD player we brought
along. We have a music input with the Garmin 340 audio panel so I used a
simple stereo 1/8" plug out of the headset jack into the music input and
voila, Dora the Explorer through our headphones. However, whenever there was
chatter on ATC (which is quite often on a nice day in NY), the audio would
mute. The "Pilot Isolation" function took care of that (as well as preserved
my concentration).

As I said in my other post, I put a remark in the flight plan stating I had
children on board requesting shallow descents and like others, I've found
that ATC was more than willing to accomodate. My kids were much better than
I expected but in retrospect, they pretty much acted the way they do in our
minivan. Their behavior during long car tripsmay be a good indication of
their aircraft demeanor. So if you're taking other people's kids up,
discreetly ask them about how they like car trips.

Guys like Rick Durden and Jay Honeck have much more experience than I do so
definitely read Rick's article from AvWeb.

Marco Leon
Post by Kyle Boatright
What is the collective experience on flying young children? I realize each
child is different, but is there an age at which *most* children become
decent passengers in light aircraft?
How do you address protecting a young child's ears?
Stories? Dos? Don'ts?
Greg Copeland
2005-08-17 00:01:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Kyle Boatright
What is the collective experience on flying young children? I realize each
child is different, but is there an age at which *most* children become
decent passengers in light aircraft?
How do you address protecting a young child's ears?
Stories? Dos? Don'ts?
My older brother and I both flew as children with my father as pilot. We
would fly from Dallas to New Mexico in a V-tail Bo. Neither of us
wore any type of headset. My hearing is excellent today. I suffered no
damage. In fact, I have "doggy-hearing" in the upper range.

As for comfort, the the plane was a time machine for me. Shortly after
takeoff, I couldn't force my eyes to stay open. Next thing, I'd wake
when my father throttled back for a landing; or if screaming started to
my right. As for my brother, the plane became a vomit extraction
device. Every trip, he would get motion sick and vomit throughout the
trip. Occationally, he would get sinus problems and get some serious
head/sinus aches during the flight from the change in elevation. This can
be tricky because it can sometimes be hard to tell if your young child has
something like that going on. If you children suffer from even mild sinus
issues, I suggest you give something for it before the flight. Likewise,
keep giving it as directed throughout the flight. You don't want it to
wear off and cause problems one you're going. Of course, it sure doesn't
hurt to travel prepared, so take something with you...just in case.

Please take my warning of sinus problems to heart. My father remembers
trying to concentrate to land with a kid screaming at the top of lungs in
the back seat and an angry wife that wouldn't stop complaining all the way
down. Surprisingly, we lived...we'll, the jury is still out on my father... ;)

Now then, having said all that, I charish the memories I have of flying
with my father as a very young child. I wouldn't trade
them...well...I might trade for another brother in the seat to my
right... ;)


Cheers,

Greg
Morgans
2005-08-17 04:51:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Copeland
We
would fly from Dallas to New Mexico in a V-tail Bo. Neither of us
wore any type of headset. My hearing is excellent today. I suffered no
damage. In fact, I have "doggy-hearing" in the upper range.
How old are you? Hearing sometimes does not start its decline, until you
get older.

Power tools and large music groups (225 brass and drums crammed into a
smallish band room at Ohio State) has been the bane of my hearing. As I
recall, sometimes hearing loss is hereditary, isn't it?

As for now, I hope you did get away without damaging your ears. Protect
them now, though. Backs and ears; protect them, protect them, protect them!

Soapbox=off <g>
--
Jim in NC
john smith
2005-08-17 17:10:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morgans
Power tools and large music groups (225 brass and drums crammed into a
smallish band room at Ohio State) has been the bane of my hearing.
Just come out and say it..
"THE BEST DAMN BAND IN THE LAND", the pride of the Buckeyes, The Ohio
State University Marching Band!
Rick
2005-08-17 19:05:25 UTC
Permalink
john smith wrote in message ...
Post by john smith
Post by Morgans
Power tools and large music groups (225 brass and drums crammed into a
smallish band room at Ohio State) has been the bane of my hearing.
Just come out and say it..
"THE BEST DAMN BAND IN THE LAND", the pride of the Buckeyes, The Ohio
State University Marching Band!
Heh.

- Rick, ex-pat Iowa Hawkeye, former member, "THE VERY BEST BAND...IN THE
WHOLE DAMN LAND"
Morgans
2005-08-18 02:10:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Rick
Heh.
- Rick, ex-pat Iowa Hawkeye, former member, "THE VERY BEST BAND...IN THE
WHOLE DAMN LAND"
What??? The golden blob, You mean? Harrumph! <g>
--
Jim in NC
Morgans
2005-08-18 02:08:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by john smith
Just come out and say it..
"THE BEST DAMN BAND IN THE LAND", the pride of the Buckeyes, The Ohio
State University Marching Band!
You got it! TBDBITL !

Are you a past member?
--
Jim in NC
john smith
2005-08-18 17:17:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morgans
Post by john smith
Just come out and say it..
"THE BEST DAMN BAND IN THE LAND", the pride of the Buckeyes, The Ohio
State University Marching Band!
You got it! TBDBITL !
Are you a past member?
No, I just live in Columbus.
This season's first OSU marching band performances were July 29-30 at
the Columbus Symphony Orchestra's Picnic with the Pops Concert.

Greg Copeland
2005-08-18 00:36:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Morgans
Post by Greg Copeland
We
would fly from Dallas to New Mexico in a V-tail Bo. Neither of us
wore any type of headset. My hearing is excellent today. I suffered no
damage. In fact, I have "doggy-hearing" in the upper range.
How old are you? Hearing sometimes does not start its decline, until you
get older.
Power tools and large music groups (225 brass and drums crammed into a
smallish band room at Ohio State) has been the bane of my hearing. As I
recall, sometimes hearing loss is hereditary, isn't it?
As for now, I hope you did get away without damaging your ears. Protect
them now, though. Backs and ears; protect them, protect them, protect them!
Soapbox=off <g>
Hehe. I'm 34 now. I now wear a nice ANR headset when I fly. I do
protect my hearing. My father's hearing is going but that's from too many
.44 mag rounds, hunting rifles, black pounder "cannons" (.68 cal),
etc...and probably a tad too many country western bars to boot.

I did not mean to imply that your hearing can not be damaged from flying.
rather, I meant to imply infrequent flying as a child certainly did not
damage my hearing...nor would I expect it to.

Cheers,

Greg
Morgans
2005-08-18 04:35:06 UTC
Permalink
Post by Greg Copeland
I did not mean to imply that your hearing can not be damaged from flying.
rather, I meant to imply infrequent flying as a child certainly did not
damage my hearing...nor would I expect it to.
That would be contrary to the studies I have seen, about hearing loss. I
don't believe that it matters if you are a child, or if you only did it a
few times.

If you were in the noisy environment for the length of time necessary (for
the amount of decibels present) for damage to occur, your hearing was
damaged. Since you still hear well, you just did not lose a high percentage
of your hearing.

Just think how much better you could hear if you hadn't lost that little
bit, way back when? Dogs would be wishing they could hear like you do! <g>
--
Jim in NC
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